Songwriting

[Karen]

Many times I've read, heard or seen something on songwriting and thought of starting a thread for it. Decided to do it today. Hoping there's an interest, and other contributors. If not, it won't be the first time I've talked to myself here.

[eric]

interesting vid Karen, i had heard this story but heard it a little different before. im glad u posted.

i also heard Robert Hunter wrote 3 songs while alone and half-consious from copius amounts of whiskey sitting next to a river somewhere in Europe while the Dead was rehearsing during the daytime. within a matter of just a couple hours he wrote "Ripple," Brokedown Palace," (both about a river) and one other that I can never remember. They were all on American Beauty so it might have been "Box of Rain" or "Attics of My Life." although "Sugar Magnolia" would make much more sense based on the river reference (cause everything abouth the GD makes so much sense...)

Also Robert Hunter's book of lyrics and poems is titled "Box of Rain" a very cool book, that includes an awesome story about not only "Box of Rain" but also how "Terrapin Station" was written, another crazy story. among the thousands im sure

[Danado]

Listening...Yes. And I would think it would be hard to write a story with such few lines as in a song. But that's why it so special when someone is good at it.

[Karen]

Deedoubleyou: I feel like I can turn to your band for anything, for any emotion I need to muster or just to have some fun. So thank you all, you guys are incredible, never stop doing what you love and I will never stop enjoying it.

MatthewVT: I know I can relate. This is Somewhere was an intensely personal album for me a few years ago. It will most likely remain my favorite album for that reason.

Wags: Thanks for sharing. I'm sure many of us can relate to having music help us out through rough spots.

I pulled these comments over from the General Discussion thread "Thank You" because they fit this excerpt from "The Wilco Book":

Jeff Tweedy, ca. 2004:

“People take what they need from songs and leave out the rest of the story. Sometimes you want to spell everything out, but I’ve found that when I try to do that, I don’t have much interest in singing those songs for very long. It’s best if I’ve left enough windows or holes in it for myself so that the meaning can shift and I can integrate myself into it over time. The easiest way to do that is to be a really brutal editor, to pull out things that aren’t just essence, to leave an impression of the original story—so that there’s different ways to shade it over time. It’s like when you have your heart broken, and you turn on the radio, and every song is about you specifically, and your situation. I love that, I love that humans do that. We look for that structure and can identify it. I don’t know if you can really consciously try and construct those open spaces, but you have to leave those holes there, as opposed to filling them and making the story airtight. Like “Muzzle of Bees”—it’s very, very direct in some ways. There’s a very specific message on an answering machine. The rest of it seems to be almost simultaneous—like having one or two lines that just poke out and speak in a direct way and crack the facade enough for the listener to be aware that there’s a consciousness on the other end of it—like “I’ve been puking.” Just so they realize that it’s not just a disembodied voice—you can feel a consciousness lurking under there.





“In the end, you make this record, put all these ideas into it, and accept it. And accept that it’s hard playing, and unschooled, and romantic, and passionate. Accept that you cried making it. I can’t listen to “At Least That’s What You Said,” when the music comes in, when the drums come in, without crying. It sounds like a panic attack to me. It’s representational, you know. The second half of the solo when the guitar becomes more frantic is unsettling to me in a really beautiful way. It says more than anything I’ve ever written lyrically, and it just happened.”

[rte100expat]

Glad you started this thread Karen since I think it can be a good platform for a lot of relevant info. I thought of it when I came across this blurb from one of my favorite (and usually underappreciated) songwriters. Saw Ray Davies at the Flynn in Burlington well over ten years ago on a tour where he made a point of explaining the backstories to his songs - and from this format he's sometimes credited with inspiring the VH1 Storytellers series that followed.
In the article I especially liked the description of Mumford and Sons as being launched straight from the Kink's Muswell Hillbillies - my best early intro to the band and an album that's also been noted by Grace as a favorite.
New at using links, so hope it come out.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...cis_get_f.html

[Karen]

Thanks for contributing, expat. You get my vision – ha, ha.

I appreciated this first paragraph: “Ray Davies gave pop music a whole new perspective. Back in the mid-'60s, when most bands were singing about being glad all over, Davies paralleled the Beatles in creating better-observed characters rooted in a broader world.” He was a voice of reason, eh? I don’t like most flower music - at least the really sappy stuff, should qualify it that way - stuff like "Gentle On My Mind"

This line: “He penned what some consider the first heavy metal riff (“You Really Got Me")” really got me, so:

[eric]

one of my favorite (and usually underappreciated) songwriters. Saw Ray Davies at the Flynn in Burlington well over ten years ago

expat u and Grace Potter have more in common than u may know, she repeatedly has credited the Kinks as a huge rock/pop music influence in her song writing. in fact i bet she was at that same show as you at the Flynn (if it wasnt on a school night!)

also there is definatley some talk that DAVE Davies has finally come public to address the rumors that he and his brother Ray might put the Kinks back together for the first time since 1996, and as he put it "nothing has been ruled out."

my understanding is that until very recently Dave Davies was not interested in re-joining the Kinks, and had some "industry related" issues with his brother Ray. But apparently they have spoken and the idea of a new Kinks project has at least been hypothetically discussed between them.

still love that live version of "Lola" from the album, i will never get sick of that! cheers

[Karen]

Thanks to Charles for this link, from thread “Jim James talks about and performs Golden on VH1 Storytellers” in “Other Bands”:

Golden - 2011

Earlier version:

Golden -2004

Watchin' a stretch of road, miles of light explode
Driftin' off a thing I'd never done before
Watchin' the crowd roll in, out go the lights it begins
Feelin' in my bones I never felt before

People always told me that bars are dark and lonely
And talk is often cheap and filled with air
Sure sometimes they thrill, but nothin' could ever chill
Like the way they make the time just disappear

Feelin' you here again, hot on my skin again
Feelin’ good a thing I'd never known before
What does it mean to feel millions of dreams come real
Feelin' in my soul I'd never felt before

And you, you always told, no matter how long it holds
If it falls apart or makes us millionaires
You'll be right here forever, we'll go thru this thing together
And on heaven's golden shore we'll lay our heads

[Karen]

A song by Colin Meloy of the Decemberists, “originally sung into the answering machine of a friend named Steven as a legitimate apology for the loss of a beloved bicycle named Madeline.” - wiki

The Apology Song



The Rest of The Story



Lyrics

I'm really sorry Steven
But your bicycle's been stolen
I was watchin' it for you
'Til you came back in the fall
Guess I didn't do such a good job after all

I was feeling really sorry Steven
And I spent all morning grieving
And everybody's saying
That you'll take the news gracefully
Somehow I don't think I'll be getting off that easily

I meant her no harm
When I left her unlocked
Outside the Orange Street Food Farm
I was just running in
Didn't think I'd be that long
I came out, she was gone
And all that was there was some bored old dog
Leashed up to the place where your bicycle had been
Guess we'll never see poor Madeleine again

Let this be consolation, Steven
That all the while you were in England
I treated her with care and respect
And gave her lots of love
And I was usually pretty good 'bout locking her up

Where has she gone?
Well, I bet she's on the bottom of the Frenchtown Pond
Rudely abused on some hesher's* joyride
So I wrote you this song
In the hopes that you'd forgive me
Even though it was wrong
Being so careless with a thing so great
And taking your poor Madeleine away, away

*From Urban Dictionary:
“Long haired, usually mulleted person who listens and rocks out to Metal or Thrash music. enerally seen wearing acid-washed jeans, leather motorcycle or denim jacket covered with band and skull patches. Will often have a Molester Moustache.”

[Karen]

On stands now, and I recommend it highly:

Eric Clapton & The Giants of Blues Guitar


This is an excerpt from “Strange Brew” by John McDermott, reprinted From “Guitar World” November 1997.

[JD] How did “Sunshine of Your Love” develop?

[Jack] Bruce: Pete Brown and I had been working all night, trying to write stuff, and we hadn’t got anywhere. I picked up my double bass and played the riff. Pete looked out the window, saw that the sun was coming up, and wrote, “It’s getting near dawn/and lights closed their tired eyes…”

[Pete] Brown: Eric added the hook. Funny enough, I never liked it, although it makes a lot of sense musically. I didn’t like the title, “Sunshine of Your Love.” I suppose, though, that it hit the mark with so many people because it was such a broad idea. In the long run, thank you, Eric! But in the short term, I must admit I was pretty miserable about it.

Bruce: I knew “Sunshine of Your Love” was going to go over well because both Booker T. Jones [keyboard player of Booker T. & the MGs] and Otis Redding heard it and told me it was going to be a smash. Their opinions really meant a lot to me.

Clapton, Baker, Bruce




Jimi Hendrix

[Karen]

.
.
Two Prestigious awards for Leonard Cohen!!

Prince of Asturias Award

The Glenn Gould Prize


Hallelujah




"Hallelujah", in its original version, is a song in "12/8 feel", which evokes the styles of both waltz and gospel music. Written in the key of C major, the chord progression follows the lyric "it goes like this, the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, and the major lift": C, F, G, A minor, F.[1]
Cohen's original version contains several biblical references, most notably evoking the stories of Samson and traitorous Delilah from the Book of Judges as well as the adulterous King David and Bathsheba[2]: "she cut your hair" and "you saw her bathing on the roof, her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you".

-->more at wiki<--


Suzanne




"Now, 'You Probably Think This Song Is about You' and a trip back to the early 60’s in Montreal to meet a young dancer married to Armand, a handsome sculptor. She became the muse of dozens of Beat poets but for one, Leonard Cohen, she became extra special."

--> About "Suzanne" <--

[Snowbird]

.
.
[Two] Prestigious award[s] for Leonard Cohen!!

Suzanne

"Now, 'You Probably Think This Song Is about You' and a trip back to the early 60’s in Montreal to meet a young dancer married to Armand, a handsome sculptor. She became the muse of dozens of Beat poets but for one, Leonard Cohen, she became extra special."

--> About "Suzanne" <--

Thanks for that Karen - especially loved the link to the interview with Suzanne!

[Karen]

From Wikipedia:

"I Love Rock 'n Roll" is a rock song written in 1975 by Alan Merrill and Jake Hooker of Arrows, who recorded the first released version. The song was later made famous by the hit version recorded by Joan Jett & the Blackhearts in 1981.

“The song was originally recorded and released by the Arrows in 1975 on RAK Records, with lead vocals by Alan Merrill and produced by Mickie Most. In an interview with Songfacts, Merrill said he wrote it as "a knee-jerk response to The Rolling Stones' 'It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)'." [1] This version was first released as a B-side, but was soon re-recorded and flipped to A-side status on a subsequent pressing of the record. Although not a chart hit in its original version as a result of non-existent promotion by the band's label, the song has come to worldwide prominence due to very successful cover versions that have been recorded.”

[Xaphan]

Thanks Karen for that interview link. I can remember the first time I heard the song and it shot right through me. I was a senior in college, and ran out to buy the album. I wore it out, not just for Suzanne, but for virtually every song on the album.

One of LC's most gripping songs deals with the weird image on the back, Joan of Arc nude, in chains, being embraced by the flames. I have made a lifetime study of Joan, and although they got her hair the correct color (black), that is about all to identify her. His work, "Joan of Arc", if I understand it correctly, has her being seduced before being devoured by the flames. Leonard also has a great love of the story of a teenage American Indian saint who was martyred by non-Christian Indians.

[Karen]

Glad you enjoyed the post, Xaphan. I got a little ahead of myself in the previous reply to your post, so I deleted. Cardinal rule is "always fact check." While doing so, I found this beautiful cover of Leonard's "If It Be Your Will." Can't resist putting it here.

Note L.C. comments at 1:37 - applicable to spirit of this thread.

[kalt]

EXCELLENT POST AND REALLY NICE.





Songwriting

[Karen]

Jeremy Styles: "I've always been one to allow a song to breathe on its own and allow for different interpretations. It's how I've found a lot of my inspiration, just flubbing up words that I think I hear to create a great song idea. That being said, being on the other end, creating the music, I enjoy the room for error on other people's parts. With this song in particular, I have a very specific vision of the story. To others, it's different, and I want to allow for that to occur."


The song and the story

[Karen]

"Lucky Now" – Brian Adams

Song Stories